Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Pharmacists and conscience

A number of South Dakota blogger types have been posting today about our state's conscience clause for pharmacists. Apparently, Thune likes this law, while Herseth Sandlin and Johnson don't really know what to think of it.

I'll remind Jon Schaff, Bob Ellis, and the others of the Rev. Katherine Hancock Ragsdale's words on the topic from this summer, since she said it better than I ever could:

When doctors and pharmacists try to opt out of providing medical care, claiming it’s an act of conscience, our work is not done.

Let me say a bit more about that, because the religious community has long been an advocate of taking principled stands of conscience – even when such stands require civil disobedience. We’ve supported conscientious objectors, the Underground Railroad, freedom riders, sanctuary seekers, and anti-apartheid protestors. We support people who put their freedom and safety at risk for principles they believe in.

But let’s be clear, there’s a world of difference between those who engage in such civil disobedience, and pay the price, and doctors and pharmacists who insist that the rest of the world reorder itself to protect their consciences – that others pay the price for their principles.

This isn’t particularly complicated. If your conscience forbids you to carry arms, don’t join the military or become a police officer. If you have qualms about animal experimentation, think hard before choosing to go into medical research. And, if you’re not prepared to provide the full range of reproductive health care (or prescriptions) to any woman who needs it then don’t go into obstetrics and gynecology, or internal or emergency medicine, or pharmacology. Choose another field! We’ll respect your consciences when you begin to take responsibility for them!

11 comments:

Bob Ellis said...

Women can still get contraceptives from another pharmacist or through the mail. If a woman is able to find a way to see a doctor to obtain a prescription for contraceptives, she should be able to find a way to get the prescription filled, regardless of whether a pharmacist here or there has a conscientious objection. If you're going to argue that a woman has some sort of right to obtain contraceptives within her local community, what about rural communities where there are no stores of any type for many miles. Will you then mandate that we must open a pharmacy within 10/20/30/whatever miles of every woman in South Dakota?

Liberals become indignant when people of traditional values work to maintain the values our civilization has historically held. Why do liberals think it's then okay to force their values--or lack thereof--onto the rest of us? Liberals get upset when they want to do something immoral simply to satisfy a desire and conservatives say we shouldn't do that, yet apparently many liberals believe they should have the right to force conservatives to do thing that violate their conscience.

Most people get into a medical field because they want to help people. Their values are usually parallel with the (apparently now outdated) Hippocratic Oath which calls upon those in the medical profession to consider what is beneficial to their patient and to abstain from administering what they consider harmful or mischievous, in addition to refusing abortion. This philosophy is best summed up by the sentiment also generally attributed to Hippocrates: "First, do no harm." Medical professionals can do much good without being forced to violate this oath and their conscience.

For the record, I have no problem with birth control that doesn't destroy a human embryo. I do, however have a problem with the illogical double-standard on values, and the demand that professionals who have sworn an oath to do good should be forced to do what they believe is bad.

Anna said...

Liberals become indignant when people of traditional values work to maintain the values our civilization has historically held.

People have been trying to control their fertility since practically the beginning of time. What traditional values does birth control violate?

If you're going to argue that a woman has some sort of right to obtain contraceptives within her local community, what about rural communities where there are no stores of any type for many miles.

I think anyone, male or female, has the right to expect that pharmacists will fill prescriptions their doctors have ordered, without hassle or moralizing on the part of the pharmacist. As the Rev. indicated, if pharmacists have issues with filling prescriptions, perhaps they should choose a different career path.

Elais said...

Bob,

This is a public health issue. Any pharmacist who endangers the public welfare by refusing to fill prescriptions, regardless of reason, is a danger to the community.

In a rural or isolated community, public health becomes even more important, given the lack of affordable alternatives. It behooves any community to at least provide for another pharmacists to make birth control available to women or at least pay for the women's birth control out of their own pocket.

Would you accept if a doctor refuses to give immunizations because he feels that vaccines are wrong?

Bob Ellis said...

If it's a public health issue, how will women get sick if they don't have birth control (which they can still get from other sources, anyway)? Do you consider pregnancy an illness?

Anna said...

Bob, can you name some reasons other than preventing pregnancy that women take birth control? I bet you can. I can. A lot of women would become ill if they were denied access to birth control prescriptions.

Bob Ellis said...

I had some recollections about non-contraceptive uses for birth control, Anna, but wanted to bounce them off a doctor friend of mine first. He got back to me this morning and confirmed my recollections. He has experience in emergency medicine, family practice and OB/GYN.

As I suspected, there are those cases where oral contraceptives are used for medical reasons other than birth control, but they are very rare, and in some cases other therapies are available.

I know liberals tend to want to base public policy on the exception rather than the rule, but that's a very impractical and inefficient way of doing things.

Besides, as I've said before, there are still other options such as going to another pharmacist, or even ordering through the mail. I live in the second largest city in South Dakota, and I still order some of my medicine through the mail; it's considerably cheaper than I can get it anywhere in town.

There are also all the negative side effects (increased risk of heart attack, stroke, blood clots, diabetes, etc.) of oral contraceptives that shouldn't be forgotten.

So promoting immediate access to oral contraceptives, in violation of the conscience of a pharmacist, for reasons of public health is somewhat disingenuous.

Unless one views pregnancy as a disease?

Anna said...

What on earth are you talking about? I just explained that women have a lot of reasons for taking birth control, and those reasons are none of your (or of a random pharmacist's) concern. What does it matter to you if "other therapies are available" in certain cases? Or if a woman has simply decided she doesn't want to get pregnant and oral contraceptives are the best way to prevent that? Why do you care? A doctor has determined that prescription medication is the best option. Butt out.

Also, virtually any medications we put into our bodies have possible side effects. Thousands of people die every year from liver problems caused by pain relievers that you can get anywhere. The fact that oral contraceptives have negative side effects for some women (JUST LIKE ANY MEDICATION) is not a reason to deny access to them to everyone.

What it comes down to, Bob, is that I shouldn't have to be inconvenienced in getting a legal prescription for anything - birth control or otherwise - filled. If I decide I don't want to order prescriptions through the mail, I shouldn't have to do that just because some pill counter has decided he has a problem with birth control. As stated in the original post, I'll respect the consciences of pharmacists when they start to take some personal responsibility for them.

Bob Ellis said...

And I pointed out that those "other reasons" represent a very small segment of the total use of the product. Those reasons are the pharmacists concern because if the use of that product violates his conscience, he does not want to be a part of that wrongdoing.

Oral contraceptives are different than most other medications because they (1) prevent the conception of human life--which some people believe is a violation of God's mandate to and design of his human creation, and sometimes (2) can cause a newly conceived human being not to implant in the uterus where it can draw the sustenance it needs until it's born. Some pharmacists who believe this don't want to be a party to ending human life that's been conceived, or a party to going against God's design. You may not believe it, and no one is forcing you to, but the pharmacist may, and no one should force him by law to violate his conscience.

That's what you liberals don't seem to get--life isn't all about YOU. The world does not revolve around YOU. There are other people involved in the process of obtaining oral contraceptives, and apparently some of them have a deep-seated belief that it's wrong. I don't happen to agree with the belief that simple contraception is wrong, but violating the conscience is a dangerous thing that can lead to still more violations of conscience.

What it apparently comes down to for liberals is that they shouldn't be inconvenienced in any way for anything; my five year old seems to have this attitude, but is it really flattering for an adult? Everyone must bend to the will of the liberal's pursuit of pleasure, regardless of whether it violates the other person's sense of right and wrong. Everyone else, including the pharmacist, must "take responsibility," but never the liberal or feminist in question. A mature response would be, "Okay, I'll just take responsibility for myself and get my birth control elsewhere," but it really isn't about that, is it?

This indignant insistence on not being inconvenienced in any way is multiplied exponentially when the "inconvenience" involves sex. Liberals, for some reason, seem hell-bent on having sex with whoever they want, whenever they want, in whatever way they want, at any time they want, with absolutely no consequences whatsoever. Which is why, I believe, liberals are typically so hell-bent on preserving the "right" to abortion; they know that contraceptives sometimes fail, so they MUST preserve a last-ditch option to remove those nasty little "consequences" that mature people call "children." After all, at least 85% of the abortions in South Dakota in 2006 were done simply because the mother didn't want these nasty little "consequences" or "impediments" to self-fulfillment around (stated reason: "The mother did not desire to have the child"). Only 1.9% were done for rape/incest/health reasons; more of the exception dictating the rule.

Liberals rail at the thought that someone might "impose their values" on them (something we actually do every day with every law in our society when we prohibit certain behaviors). But in this case particularly, it is the liberal who wants to impose their values on another—they actually want FORCE another person to perform a behavior. In not selling the birth control, the pharmacist hasn't asked anyone to change their values; he's merely asked them to buy the product somewhere else. But in demanding the pharmacist must sell someone a product that violates his/her conscience, the liberal is insisting that the pharmacist surrender their values in favor of providing the service--service the customer could get somewhere else.

What if the pharmacist was out of the product? What if there was no pharmacy in town at all? This issue of immediate access would be a non-issue. But because a pharmacist might make a value judgment, it’s intolerable not to have immediate access.

It's probably not even the inconvenience that's so unpalatable to liberals here, but that the pharmacist is making a value judgment--something liberals hate like the proverbial vampires hate crosses and garlic.

Liberals love to pass themselves off as so "tolerant" and "caring," but when it comes down to it, their behavior and attitudes demonstrate that they really don't give a flying rip about anyone but themselves. If they did, then going to another pharmacist or ordering through the mail wouldn't be such a big deal. It may not bother you, but it may bother the pharmacist and jeopardize his/her standing before God. Why not show a little compassion for his/her moral integrity?

Hunny said...

I don't know who the hell you are BOB but perhaps your manhood has been tested at some point in your life to pick on others who have very simple rights. If you do not want to pass out drugs, don't be a pharmacist. Simple really. I am the furthest thing from a liberal with two children of my own and you are nuts. Pharmacists do not have the right to "pass judgement" That is not what the job description says. So, what about the fat person who comes to their window to get their cholesterol and diabetes meds filled? Does this particular pharmacist (I'm guessing it would be you) say,
"Sorry lard ass, you should exercise and watch what you eat and maybe you would not need this med, and by the way, God said to treat your body like a temple and you don't, so I can't give you this med." You're an idiot BOB, and maybe you should hang up your pharmacy coat and go play in traffic.

forv said...


telefon tarife karşılaştırma
en uygun tarife
en iyi tarife
en ucuz telefon tarifesi
en uygun tarife
havalandırma
gizli kamera
izolasyon
çelik baca
paslanmaz çelik baca
doğalgaz bacası
Sohbet
telefon tarife karşılaştırma
en uygun tarife
en iyi tarife
en ucuz telefon tarifesi
iso 9001
iso 14001
Yangın Söndürme
yangın söndürme cihazları
yangın dolapları
yangın tüpü
indir
izalasyon
ısıtma soğutma
isitma sogutma
Aspirator
Aspiratör
Vantilatör
sohbetim
turizm işletme belgesi
turizm belgesi
turizm yatırım belgesi
Chat
sohbet odası
sohbet sitesi
türkiye sohbet
tr sohbet
tüm türkiye sohbet
arkadaş sohbet
türkiye sohpet
kızlarla sohbet
kızlarla sohpet
muhabbet
muhappet
kızlarla çet
çet
Gizli Kamera
türkiye çet
çet sohpet
mırç
mirç
türkiye mirc
mirc
muhabbet
Sohbet Sitesi
Chat
Sohpet
Yangın
yangın güvenlik
yangın söndürme sistemleri
yangın tüpü dolum
yangın merdiveni
yangın çıkış kapısı 
Hava Soğutma
Hücreli Aspiratörler
Fanlar
Radyal Körükler
Toz Toplama
Soğutma Kulesi
Klima Santraller
Malzeme Nakil Vantilatörleri
iso 14001
iso 14001
iso 22000
iso 22000
haccp belgesi
haccp belgesi
ikamet tezkeresi
yabancı çalışma izni
yabancı personel çalışma izni
yabancı çalışma izni
yabancı personel çalışma izni
ohsas 18001
ohsas 18001
iso belgesi
iso 9001 belgesi
ohsas belgesi
ISO 9001
Teşvik Belgesi
Çocuk Bezi
Hasta Bezi
Makyaj Malzemeleri
Makyaj Temizleme Mendili
Kişisel Bakım
kolonyalı mendil
Islak mendil
Dudak Koruyucu
Temizlik Ürünleri
Göz Kalemi
Diyet Ürünleri
Süper Site
driver
Güvenlik Kamerası
Islak Mendil
Kolonyalı Mendil
Kolonyalı Mendil
JoyTurk
driver ara
web tasarım
Güvenlik Kamerası
paketleme
Kamera
Kamera Kurulum
Tatil
Tatil Köyleri
Turk tourizm
Turkish tourizm
Turk holiday
Turkish holiday
Turkish travels
Turk Travels
Tatil Yerleri
Tatil Beldeleri
Perde
Perde Modelleri
Kamera
Epilasyon
Emlak
Yaşam
Tatil
Video
Cilt Bakımı
video
süper
perde
jaluzi perde
stor perde
dikey perde
perde modelleri
perde
jaluzi perde
stor perde
dikey perde
perde modelleri
magazin
haberler
spor haberleri
video
eğitim
Giyim
guanzo - çin

damian said...

プレジデント 札幌市不動産 函館市不動産 岐阜県不動産 青森県不動産 インテリアコーディネータ リフォーム 東京 リフォーム 大阪 不動産 査定 不動産 買取 不動産 売買 不動産 鑑定 不動産 売却 プレジデントパートナーズ