Tuesday, May 12, 2009

SDP and marriage.

It's been a long time since Ken or Jon at South Dakota Politics and I have gotten into it. So for old time's sake, I have to take issue with a couple of recent posts on gay marriage over there.

(Amazingly, SDP seems to allow comments these days - but I'll say what I have to say over here, instead.)

Both Ken and Jon (but mostly Jon) seem to entirely miss the point of the debate. Lots of Jon's comments, such as:

Why does same-sex marriage not fully demonstrate self-giving? ...First, same-sex marriage cannot create new life, a profound act of self-giving. Second, same-sex unions involve someone of the same sexual nature, another self. Traditional marriage involves the adventure of discovering someone who is profoundly different from you. Of course, this assumes that men and women have differences that go beyond how they pee, or put differently, that the differences in our bodies represent a difference in our natures. Surely there is a common human nature, but perhaps there is also a male nature and female nature in addition and the differences in these natures are socially and politically relevant in ways skin color is not. But perhaps I am all wet and male/female biological differences are meaningless and with the right social arrangements all male/female differences can be eliminated.


belie, at worst, a really ridiculous amount of unchecked heterosexual privilege and heterosexism, and, perhaps at best, an entirely ahistorical interpretation of "traditional marriage" and the "traditional family." Someone as smart as Jon is above this kind of sloppy analysis. Unsurprisingly, I seriously question the notion of a "male nature" or a "female nature" that are so different that heterosexual relationships deserve rights and privileges that homosexual relationships don't. Longtime readers of DW will recall, however, that Jon also thinks it's unwomanly for females to participate in sports, so I suppose we have to keep in mind who we're dealing with here.

In fact, both Ken and Jon throw around this phrase, traditional marriage, as though marriage hasn't changed drastically in the last century and a half or so - and as though "the family" that Jon is so worried about protecting - a nuclear family consisting of one husband, one wife, and their immediate offspring - isn't a product of the 1950s. Jon mentions same-sex marriage, no-fault divorce, single motherhood, and increasing acceptance of pre-marital sex as evidence of the threats to marriage, but he fails to see our modern notion of what a marriage should be as a drastic break from tradition.

I have major issues with the institution of marriage, as it is now and as it has been used in the past - but I'd be wary of throwing around "traditional marriage" and the "traditional family" too often in your arguments for and against gay marriage in the future. Traditionally, marriage has transferred ownership of a woman from her father to her husband. Anything beyond that is a relatively new development. Traditionally, family has been much different than a husband, a wife, and their children.

Just something to keep in mind.

6 comments:

Angie said...

It never fails to amaze me how right-wingers use the term "traditional marriage" as the opposite of "same-sex marriage," as if to imply that a man and a woman are automatically the Cleavers, while two men or two women (either married or in long-term committed relationship) somehow have these ZOMG CRAZY RELATIONSHIPS.

If Jon or Ken knew any same-sex couples, they would see that gay couples are pretty much as boring as the rest of us: they've got a mortgage, they pay their taxes, they go to work, come home from work and make dinner, and maybe watch whatever arrived from Netflix that day.

What they think is the freaking difference, I'll never know.

Anna said...

Sincerely, from the argument that Schaff is presenting, what he says makes heterosexual marriage different/superior is the "different nature" of men and women and how the relationship between two people with fundamentally different natures is deeper and more special.

I mean, really - classic heterosexism/homophobia.

Additionally, Schaff points out that heterosexual couples can reproduce (ignoring the fact that gays have more children that Catholics in this day and age).

Pretty weak sauce.

Kelsey said...

I got married in the state of SD and they never asked us if we planned to have children or even if we liked each other. People can idealize marriage to be whatever they want it to be -- the legal reality is that getting a marriage license is pretty similar to registering your vehicle. People do it for all kinds of reasons; two gay people who do it because they love each other is probably one of the better ones.

Ken Blanchard said...

Anna: Sorry it took me so long to reply. You can find my reply at SDP.

girlfriday said...

What is "classic" is accusing your opponent of some kind of phobia. Yawn. Now I remember why I don't read this blog.

Anna said...

We haven't missed you.

Have you figured out an argument yet for why it's pro-woman to ban abortion?